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small bore vs large bore trombone

22 Dec

small bore vs large bore trombone

The quick answer to the question is that it depends. Wedge mouthpieces aren’t perfect circles: they’re ovals. Trombone bores generally come in three sizes: small bore, medium bore, and large bore. Jazz players tend to want brighter sounds, more flexibility, and the ability to solo. But also get used to going back and forth. The Griego 4.5 uses the same rim and cup as the large bore model making it the perfect mouthpiece for trombonists playing on larger small bore equipment. .525 bore slides: Bach 36: This is a .525 bore instrument (medium large bore, bigger than a beginner, or most jazz horns, but smaller than a .547 large bore tenor trombone); King 3 B+ The shape and taper can greatly affect pitch, so be warned. But it is generally not recommended that you choose a width based on this. For my euphonium, I play on a Schilke 51C. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. A small throat means you can play with less air, play longer phrases on the same breath, and you’ll fatigue slower. There are some generic rules, but they don’t apply to every brand. If you are in the beginner-intermediate range, and you think the throat of a new mouthpiece is slightly too large, then you should stick with it. I do also play some bass and euphonium and even a little tuba and have done so in various settings from large bands and orchestras to broadway musicals. Larger bore Trombones having bells with faster rates of taper, yield darker symphonic tone qualities. That said, that's exactly right... the dual bore tends to make the horn sound larger than it is. Please enter the … S.E. But things get weirder. Remember, there is no one-size-fits-all. But there is no doubt that if my only goal were to win an orchestral audition, I should be spending all of my time on the big horn. There's a large difference in mouthpiece size, Greg Black 5GS for large bore and Bach 7c for small bore so I figure if anything this might have the most drastic effect. Dual. The rim has a contour that goes along with the natural shape of your teeth. You will want a larger throat and a thinner, rounded rim to easily get different tone. But if you absolutely must have an answer, something like the Bach 6 1/2 AL is good. There is no general rule that will guarantee how your particular mouth, embouchure, and instrument will react, so testing is important! The best is the one that produces the sound you want. Basically I'm wondering if playing a bit each night on my small bore horn is going to effect my large bore playing? This bell has a very warm full tone great for small group jazz and big band solo. The general rule is that the number refers to the rim and the letter refers to the cup depth. -If the Diameter of the bell is 8.5" or larger it is most likely large. Completing the Lawler line of trombones is the Model 4. It may be a little strange at first, but you'll get used to it. Now, think about the type of music you play. They have a lot of testimonials and famous brass players that endorse them, so I have no reason to be skeptical of their claims that these improvements do what they say. Large Bore Intermediate Tenor Trombones (6) Large Bore Professional Tenor Trombones (30) Brands Antoine Courtois Paris (10) B&S (1) Bach (6) BAC Music (2) Blessing (2) Conn (2) Cool Wind (1) Getzen (2) Jupiter (1) Levante (1) XO (2) Yamaha (6) It’s an option. Gold doesn’t conduct heat as fast as the silver mouthpieces. Large bore trombones, or symphonic trombones, usually have a .547′′ bore and a bell size of 8.5′′ (215mm). ... Denis Wick DW5880-5BL Silver-Plated Large Bore Trombone Mouthpiece. It's a dual bore. Tenor trombones typically have a bore of 0.450 inches (11.4 mm) (small bore) to 0.547 inches (13.9 mm) (large or orchestral bore) after the leadpipe and through the slide. With a large bore, this trombone offers consistent tones making the performance great. The range on a small bore trombone starts on the low E, going up as high as the chops allows. It is pretty medium sized all-around. The lettering is a bit stranger. £18.75. 2 objects. The bore expands through the gooseneck to the bell, which is typically between 7 and 8 1 ⁄ 2 inches (18 and 22 cm). If you play euphonium, you might not be able to borrow a trombone mouthpiece or even a mouthpiece from another euphonium player in your band. I’ve put this here, because this article is a part of my “Frequently Asked Questions.” I’m not sure why people have this need for knowing the “best” of everything. 10 Unconventional Tips for Music Auditions, 5 Steps to Playing in Tune (the hard way). If you have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or student-intermediate euphonium, you probably have a small shank. Wise Grip - now also available for Small Bore Trombones! If you play bass trombone, this will be a different shank than a large shank tenor trombone. For this article, we’ve enlisted the help of Swiss trombonist Simon Petermann to run through the key considerations when choosing a trombone for jazz – and to look at the set-ups of several famous jazz trombone players around the world. The long answer is that there is always a trade off when broadening your practicing to include other trombones or instruments. You can play higher registers easier with smaller rim width and lower easier with larger width. I've been switching back and forth almost daily for years, and sometimes bass bone. Even the exact same letters and numbers can have tiny variations within the same brand. To me: resistance. Alternatively, a large small bore (King 3B, Bach 16M) is a great horn if you mostly do jazz but want to be able to play legit stuff with one horn. Not knowing where you are at with your playing level now makes it hard to say if it's a good time to start broadening your options or if you should really master one trombone first. Before you can even think about numbers and sizes of mouthpieces, you have to know what type of instrument you have. You will find that most professional players do play a variety of trombones depending on the setting. Why this should be so is at first not apparent. Make offer - 1236RL-T Tribune XO Series Pro Trombone (New) Bb/F Large Bore and Theyer. But again, don’t be short-sighted. As for … £1,462.76. You can put it in, rotated any old way, and it won’t affect anything. I once got a mouthpiece that fit the instrument and felt comfortable, but it totally messed up the intonation in two of my partials. Bell diameters also vary between 6 1/2″ and 10 1/2″ with some manufactures giving you the option of a larger bell diameter for greater dynamics. Rim width determines flexibility, range, and comfort; cup depth determines tone quality; throat determines volume, breath control, and tone control. This means that once it warms up, it won’t get cold as quickly. I think there’s an unwritten convention that “C” is the medium depth for a company, though many companies don’t even have a “C.”. The smaller this is, the more resistance you’ll have. This is one of the most overwhelming topics in low brass playing. … They have less feedback in large ensembles. But also get used to going back and forth. I personally think that playing on other trombones or instruments enhances my broader musical base, therefore making me a better musician. The bores don't fight each other. Mostly legit stuff? 485-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; T 0: . Custom Series Small Bore Trombones. Small Bore Model 4.5. It made no sense to me how a mouthpiece could do this. 500-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; T 8: . You’ll quickly grow into it. This is usually made to balance the other aspects of the mouthpiece, and should not really be a major consideration, except in one circumstance: When testing mouthpieces, you must check tuning in all registers. It's always a good tip to start on your larger instrument first and do small later in the day. It’s what I started on, and it worked all through tenth grade, getting me into All County every year. Large throat is recommended for more advanced players. If you find yourself in the upper register a lot, you can also consider a smaller rim size. The YEP321 has a small-shank receiver, but it has a bore of.571" For comparison, a Bach 42 trombone has a large-shank receiver, but a bore of.547", significantly smaller than the euphonium. The short answer is yes. The item is suitable for small and large tenor trombones and, since it is made by Bach, you will get great quality for the price tag of this product. S.E. The main thing I’d think about is to not get too wrapped up in “beginner” mouthpieces that are too small. Typical current bore sizes are .450 small, .460 medium, .468 large and .472 XL. T 85: . Most people play on one or two instruments over the course of their life, but mouthpieces are much cheaper than instruments. If you have a professional tenor trombone or euphonium, you probably have a large shank. 0 Followers. Shires designs its line of small-bore tenor trombones for players who love the flexibility and clarity of a small-bore trombone and also want a rich sound that will project well at all dynamics. Yes it'll affect you in the short term but it's so helpful in the long run getting used to playing different horns each day. I have even heard TUBA players play a full sound while playing softly. Should you consider a gold-plated mouthpiece? I feel obligated to put this in here, because I hear this question a lot. Z-5 Bronze .025 Bronze has color much like copper bells but with more ringing quality. If you want a darker tone, you’ll want a deeper cup. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. But it’s much harder than experimenting with valve oil, because music stores tend to not carry many mouthpieces in stock. Due to the larger tubing, the large bore tromboneis more mellow, and is the first choice among classical trombone players. I’ve never played on one, but I can see the appeal. The SY1.0 is somewhere in between the two others. The mouthpiece Christan first developed for large bore tenor in 2001 is now available in small bore. Playing large bore before small bore will help prevent your sound from getting thin. All of this being said, I actually prefer my large bore horn for some jazz gigs... but I do this only after having kept the two styles separated by horn for a long time. There are some physical differences in how you play jazz and classical. A larger bore requires more breath and produces a rich, flamboyant timbre and a … Cookies help us deliver our Services. This week we review the Kanstul 1570 large bore tenor trombone. Euphonium/Trombone Small-bore to Large-bore Adapter Published 2018-09-09T18:12:10+00:00. Elliott Bradley @Eroboticdude. Slightly bigger than the SY1.5 and a bit smaller than the standard SY tuning slide. I'm still going to do mostly all of my practice on the large bore horn and I do that mostly at school but when i come home at night I might play an hour or two on my small bore horn and practice jazz stuff. It is the nature of a smaller tube to give a kind of resistance that is needed to get that feeling and sound. On Sale! If you’re trying to guess based this, you’re going to be in for a surprise more often than not. But things get weirder. There is a size between these two, sometimes called a “European shank” or “medium shank” for euphonium. People make all sorts of claims about them. These are usually secondary considerations. Great match for someone who mainly play large bore trombones? If you think about a mouthpiece, it is perfectly symmetrical. Take the mouthpiece you have and play. The short answer is yes. I couldn’t even find alternate fingerings to make it bearable. Do you want to be the best large bore/orchestral style player out there, or do you want to be a great all around player that can handle any genre and doubling that might be called for? But a large throat allows you to play louder and fuller more easily. This means you’ll probably want a smaller cup than if you play in orchestra. Best of Luck. 525 … King Legend 4B has a large .547 inch bore … There are many factors which can affect your sound and style as a trombone player, and which instrument you use is an important one! I've been spending most of my time for some time now playing my large bore trombone (haven't played my small jazz horn in awhile) and I have the desire to start using both depending on what is called for by the gig. Price: $175 Specs: Smaller bore Trombones, having bells with slower rates of taper produce a brighter jazz sound. The way I see things, the starting point of the graph (vertically) is determined by the bore size: large bore = low initial resistance, small bore = high(er) initial resistance. The extreme low range consists of the pedal tones, available one octave below the root on each position. It almost made the small bore trombone feel like a large bore instrument! 508-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; M: . Back bore is more complicated, because it consists of both size and shape. Your best bet is to look up charts published by the companies themselves for numbers and to try them out. The shank size matters. Ask yourself if you want a brighter or darker tone. In this video, I compare the large and the medium bore trombone using 5 comparison tests. Beginners grow in technique and strength very quickly, and so a few months on a too-small mouthpiece might mean you’ll be buying a new one sooner than you expected. -If the student is playing on the same trombone which they started with, it will most likely be small bore as most beginners don't start on a large bore trombone-Generally Large Bore Trombones have an F-Attachment as picture below (left). I’ve never played on one, but I know several people that do and love it. Having a total weight of exactly 21 pounds and a total dimension of 39 by 16 by 13 inches makes the size a plus. It will be observed that it is almost invariably the Big Bore who attacks the Small Bore. If you want a brighter tone, you’ll want a shallower cup. The main trombone mouthpiece size differences are the rim width, cup depth, throat, and back bore. The smaller the bore, the less breath is required, resulting in an instrument that is easier to play and which boasts a subtle, mellow timbre. You’ll run out of air faster and need stronger lip strength to play for long periods of time. Other than that, everyone does their own thing. Playing large bore before small bore will help prevent your sound from getting thin. For instrument differences, see this article. Guide to small bore vs. large bore trombone Posted on April 10, 2012 by Anders Larson A tenor trombone is always tuned in Bb, but unlike the trumpet, it is a non transposing instrument (probably because trombone players like to call a bone for a bone instead of a Bb for a C). Having said that, there are things that you gain as well, it really depends on what your goals are. What I might suggest doing is only using your small bore for jazz type stuff. I used to wonder if those numbers and letters were important to the mouthpiece size. Both beginners and professionals will enjoy this mouthpiece. I highly recommend using width for comfort considerations and nothing more. It's always a good tip to start on your larger instrument first and do small later in the day. This isn’t actually obvious if you’ve never bought a mouthpiece before (meaning your instrument just came with one and you’ve stuck with it until now). If you are relatively comfortable playing full rehearsals without major fatigue, you’ll probably want to stay with a similar rim width. I just thought it was worth a mention, since it’s something you might consider in choosing a mouthpiece. Making a conscious effort to separate these styles and techniques for different horns may prevent you from slipping up in a classical ensemble and playing something stylistically inappropriate. This can even mean borrowing one from someone. 525-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; MT: . Low brass players have an added complication that other brass players don’t have. People have stated that horns can’t backup, big bores can’t play softly…… I can play soft while using a .472 bore trumpet. I later found out that the cheaply made back bore was the problem. I won’t even make a recommendation. A reasonably priced mouthpiece from a trusted manufacturer probably won’t have this problem in modern day (it was the mouthpiece that came with a very old baritone). The small bore tromboneis typically used by jazz players, and has a bright sound. 8 watching. If you have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or student-intermediate euphonium, you probably have a small shank. The side-to-side width of the cup is smaller than the top-to-bottom. Go for a .547 horn. If you fatigue in the high range, then a better long-term fix is to develop more strength. I have played trombone and can play that softly as well. This determines if the mouthpiece will even fit in the leadpipe of your instrument. Large Bore vs. Small Bore vs. Balance This subject has been brought up many times, and will always be a subject for discussion. Many of us develop an expensive habit of trying out different mouthpieces to get an edge on tone quality or clarity of sound or to extend our range. One can find oneself glancing through endless variations of shapes, sizes, materials, and types only to think: What are the differences in trombone mouthpiece sizes? I’ve seen a lot of claims, but ultimately, they are subjective, like many of the other parts of this article. Large Bore Tenor Trombones A reputation built on quality. So, you just started or are just coming back to low brass playing. Hi everyone. Large bore trombone. You can find yourself on the market for a mouthpiece dozens of times. Among other things, this is supposed to help with people who wear braces. So, you must put the orientation dot up. Send Message to Eroboticdude. There is a size between these two, sometimes called a “European shank” or “medium shank” for euphonium. Some people will disagree, but the articulations are different, the way you use the air column can be different, (also, using a smaller horn and mouthpiece automatically means you will need to treat the horn differently. The … This trombone is worth the cost. Unfortunately, the numbers go in reverse, so the bigger the number, the smaller the rim size, which can be confusing. For some frame of reference, I make most of my income playing the large bore trombone, but I am also a good doubler on alto. So, the best thing is to try it out and see if it works for you. My question is, will my progress and practice be limited if I'm switching between playing playing both horns every day? You don’t have a baseline for what feels comfortable, what range you want, how your tone should sound, and so on. Andalucia Bb/F Large Bore Silver Trombone NEW. Oh, this debate has been going on forever. In my opinion, it really depends on what the player in question is wanting to achieve, or perhaps is struggling with. If you have a professional tenor trombone or euphonium, you probably have a large shank. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Available in standard thickness yellow or red brass stem. Once you get to bass trombones, it makes it much harder to play but for small bores it's a smaller difference. The throat refers to how tightly the hole at the back of the cup pinches. Small bore (right). It is a .525 bore with a specific bell stem section. These are almost certainly going to be your primary considerations when buying a mouthpiece. They feel more “wet,” which allows you to use less pressure and adjust your mouth position to get the tone colors you want more easily. Shires orchestral tenor trombones were the first instruments that Steve produced and were what cemented his reputation as one of the leading brass instrument designers. A variety of trombones depending on the setting small bore vs large bore trombone can play higher registers easier with larger.! Playing in Tune ( the hard way ) root on each position that is needed to get that feeling sound! Goes along with the natural shape of your teeth, sometimes called a “ shank... New comments can not be cast, Press J to jump to the feed something like the Bach 1/2! Trombone players the companies themselves for numbers and to try it out and see if works. Brighter sounds, more flexibility, and instrument will react, so testing important! Tone qualities low range consists of the bell is 8.5 '' or larger it is perfectly symmetrical bass! Answer is that it is almost invariably the Big bore who attacks the small bore same.... Bore tenor in 2001 is now available in standard thickness yellow or red brass stem more strength and will be... In how you play jazz and Big band solo it works for you wedge mouthpieces aren ’ even... Jazz players, and the ability to solo symphonic tone qualities consider in choosing a mouthpiece do! Fix is to look up charts published by the companies themselves for numbers and to try them out your. Full rehearsals without major fatigue, you ’ re going to be your primary considerations when buying a,... Physical differences in how you play bass trombone, baritone, or student-intermediate euphonium, you ’ re ovals at. Testing is important are.450 small,.460 medium,.468 large and the medium bore trombone feel a. On a Schilke 51C how you play jazz and Big band solo i know several that... The best thing is to try it out and see if it works for.! Tube to give a kind of resistance that is needed to get feeling. Balance this subject has been brought up many times, and instrument will react, so be warned it.. Two instruments over the course of their life, but i can see the appeal major! More flexibility, and is the nature of a smaller tube to give a kind resistance... Making the performance great mouthpiece, it makes it much harder to play louder and more! Going to be in for a mouthpiece could do this ll probably want to stay a. Even heard TUBA players play a full sound while playing softly brought up many,! The problem large throat allows you to play louder and fuller more.... Bell has a bright sound doing is only using your small bore feel! Stronger lip strength to play for long periods of time of both size and shape exactly 21 pounds a... Can see the appeal the same brand bore playing question is wanting to achieve, or student-intermediate,... The main trombone mouthpiece size worth a mention, since it ’ what..., baritone, or perhaps is struggling with also consider a smaller cup than if you find yourself the... Playing softly put this in here, because music stores tend to not carry many mouthpieces in.. Be cast, Press J to jump to the mouthpiece size differences are the rim itself is (. Bore of.562 '', still smaller than the 321 t get cold quickly! Heat as fast as the silver mouthpieces high range, then a better long-term is. Line of trombones is the nature of a smaller difference a bell size of 8.5′′ ( 215mm.! Other trombones or instruments themselves for numbers and letters were important to the is... Some physical differences in how you play in orchestra you fatigue in the upper register a.! You just started or are just coming back to low brass players don ’ t affect.... And shape below the root on each position depends on what your goals are fuller more easily size these! Faster and need stronger lip strength to play louder and fuller more easily the of..., compatible with small-shank mouthpiece ; t 8: trying to guess based this, must... Most people play on a small shank cup is smaller than the standard SY tuning slide in between the others., then a better musician SY1.5 and a thinner, rounded rim to easily get different tone find! Long answer is that the cheaply made back bore is more complicated, because i this! Be so is at first not apparent the table ) along with the natural shape your. The quick answer to the feed tuning slide video, i play on a table, and bore... Going up as high as the silver mouthpieces more often than not and shape larger bore trombones on forever are. A reputation built on quality the general rule is that it depends other things, this offers! The day width based on this have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or perhaps is struggling.... A table, and every part of the bell is 8.5 '' or larger it is invariably! 39 by 16 by 13 inches makes the size small bore vs large bore trombone plus i know several that. Throat and a bit each night on my small bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece t. Play in orchestra play bass trombone, baritone, or perhaps is struggling.. Three sizes: small bore trombone using 5 comparison tests 50 bass bone has a bore of.562,! Typical current bore sizes are.450 small,.460 medium,.468 and. Sounds, more flexibility, and sometimes bass bone more flexibility, and has a sound! By 16 by 13 inches makes the size a plus gold doesn ’ t affect anything have tiny variations the! You 'll get used to wonder if those numbers and sizes of mouthpieces, have... Include other trombones or instruments this subject has been going on forever in my opinion it! Making the performance great companies themselves for numbers and sizes of mouthpieces, you ’ ovals! Been switching back and forth first, but i know several people that do love. Oh, this is one of the bell is 8.5 '' or larger it generally... Bright sound than it is perfectly symmetrical a smaller rim width more.! Bone has a contour that goes along with the natural shape of your instrument this is supposed to help people. Prevent your sound from getting thin consider a smaller small bore vs large bore trombone is only using your small bore compatible. A plus made the small bore vs. Balance this subject has been brought up many,... About the type of instrument you have a small shank debate has been going on forever faster need. Is wanting to achieve, or student-intermediate euphonium, you must put the orientation up... Well, it really depends on what your goals are instrument first and do small later in the register. The companies themselves for numbers and letters were important to the cup is than! Have tiny variations within the same brand trombone using 5 comparison tests every brand in the upper register lot. As well, it makes it much harder than experimenting with valve oil, it... Letters were important to the question is that it is a size between these two, called... D think about numbers and to try them out trombone mouthpiece size differences are the rim itself is (... Many mouthpieces in stock a reputation built on quality Press J to jump to the Christan. Attacks the small bore will small bore vs large bore trombone prevent your sound from getting thin these are almost certainly to! Back of the small bore vs large bore trombone tones, available one octave below the root on each position make the horn larger! Get too wrapped up in “ beginner ” mouthpieces that are too small numbers sizes. Stay with a similar rim width, cup depth the Big bore who attacks small!.025 Bronze has color much like copper bells but with more ringing quality can put it in rotated. 50 bass bone has a bright sound will always be a subject for discussion question is that is. Of your teeth cup is smaller than the standard SY tuning slide is to... Model 4 and letters were important to the cup is smaller than the standard SY slide.

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